WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.290 --> 00:00:01.110 Mark Kushner: Okay. 2 00:00:02.340 --> 00:00:07.329 Mark Kushner: It's, my pleasure to introduce Dr. Janos Feliges from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. 3 00:00:07.590 --> 00:00:12.669 Mark Kushner: Dr. Falidi tolls the rank of Senior Research Scientist and Principal Engineer 4 00:00:13.910 --> 00:00:16.870 Mark Kushner: Achieve there as a quant scientist, if I'll try. 5 00:00:17.080 --> 00:00:20.850 Mark Kushner: Dr. Meredith Khalidis comes to us with his PhD from the 6 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:33.009 Mark Kushner: His research over the past number of years has encompassed quite a few occupational plasma and fluid dynamics problems. Planes of name include supporting the MR sample for a short mission. 7 00:00:33.010 --> 00:00:50.850 Mark Kushner: And of course, most of his work, I'd say, has fallen under the camp recently in electric propulsion. He has developed two of the most widely used propulsion codes. Again, and has been used to do flight qualification efforts for supporting both psychic camp. 8 00:00:52.470 --> 00:00:56.009 Mark Kushner: Dr. McLeese is an affiliate and a fellow of the… 9 00:00:56.380 --> 00:01:01.350 Mark Kushner: received some of the highest assumptions awarded by NASA, including just Alan. 10 00:01:01.990 --> 00:01:17.840 Mark Kushner: So, it's a great pleasure to have you join us today for your lecture. Looking forward to, seeing it, and then on our part, we're going to bestow upon you one of the highest honors that we have. Oh, great. Perfect. Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. 11 00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:20.220 Mark Kushner: Thank you. Understood. 12 00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:25.289 Mark Kushner: Thank you. Oh, okay. 13 00:01:32.050 --> 00:01:33.250 Mark Kushner: Thank you. 14 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:38.119 Mark Kushner: Okay, everybody can hear me okay? 15 00:01:39.170 --> 00:01:43.959 Mark Kushner: All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, Ben, for, for the kind introduction, and, 16 00:01:44.330 --> 00:01:54.550 Mark Kushner: Thank you to the Institute for the invitation, and thank you to all of you for taking the time, faculty and students for taking the time to attend the talk today. Yeah, so I, 17 00:01:54.710 --> 00:01:58.869 Mark Kushner: joined JPL about 22 years ago now, and I was… 18 00:01:59.010 --> 00:02:05.209 Mark Kushner: Asked to come in to develop a modeling and simulation program at the laboratory. 19 00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:12.769 Mark Kushner: That at the time, had capabilities that really didn't… either didn't exist for certain thrusters. 20 00:02:13.010 --> 00:02:29.399 Mark Kushner: or were just too basic to have a meaningful impact on our missions. And reasons for that, were, largely associated with computational resources. 21 00:02:29.550 --> 00:02:31.939 Mark Kushner: Funding fluctuations… 22 00:02:32.100 --> 00:02:37.410 Mark Kushner: But also, the complexity of these plasmas, as I will try to share with you today. 23 00:02:37.510 --> 00:02:53.420 Mark Kushner: is quite significant, and therefore, the larger EP community, had to deal with, the inadequacies of the modeling, of that time. 24 00:02:53.530 --> 00:02:58.070 Mark Kushner: In fact, at the time, so we're talking here about, you know, 20 or 30 years ago. 25 00:02:58.490 --> 00:03:12.140 Mark Kushner: At the time, some of the more rigorous scientific codes existed at a few universities only, and none of them had ever reached the level of maturity that we need 26 00:03:12.210 --> 00:03:21.620 Mark Kushner: for practical impact through our robotic missions, things like assessing life and performance and things of that nature. So that was one of the reasons I was brought in. 27 00:03:22.110 --> 00:03:24.800 Mark Kushner: And, my hope… 28 00:03:24.930 --> 00:03:38.050 Mark Kushner: you know, certainly we've made significant progress in the last two decades, for the better, and I'd like to think, I'd like to believe that our work at JPL played a role in that, perhaps an important role. 29 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:43.179 Mark Kushner: So, which brings me to the topic of the presentation today. 30 00:03:43.570 --> 00:04:00.110 Mark Kushner: Which is, through a few examples, I will try and share with you the impact that, modeling and simulations of electrical parcel plasmas has had, not only to our missions, but also to the EP community in general. 31 00:04:06.670 --> 00:04:12.409 Mark Kushner: So, I am assuming here that some of you 32 00:04:12.650 --> 00:04:20.129 Mark Kushner: have not or are not working in electrical pollution, so I'm going to go through some of the mandatory basics of EP. 33 00:04:20.269 --> 00:04:32.309 Mark Kushner: Starting with a fundamental principle of electropulsion, which is actually pretty simple. We utilize electrical energy to break down the propellant. 34 00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:45.550 Mark Kushner: And then use electromagnetic fields to accelerate the heavy part of the propellant, the ions, to produce a propulsive force that does, in turn, work on the operating gas. 35 00:04:46.090 --> 00:04:53.450 Mark Kushner: And depending on the, type for the nature of the acceleration mechanism, we have 36 00:04:53.710 --> 00:05:04.529 Mark Kushner: Placed various thrusters in loosely defined categories, namely electromal, electrostatic, and electromagnetic thrusters. 37 00:05:05.270 --> 00:05:06.150 Mark Kushner: Club. 38 00:05:07.080 --> 00:05:14.090 Mark Kushner: Magnrido plasmody dynamic and plastic plasma thrusters, for example, are in the class of electromagnetic thrusters. 39 00:05:14.390 --> 00:05:26.609 Mark Kushner: Some of the thrusters I'll be talking mostly about today, hole thrusters, mostly inline engines, are, electrostatic. Some argue that hole thrusters are also electromagnetic. I am on that for now. 40 00:05:27.710 --> 00:05:29.720 Mark Kushner: I should mention that, 41 00:05:29.890 --> 00:05:38.009 Mark Kushner: One of the differences, unique differences between electropulsion and some of the other forms of propulsion, like chemical. 42 00:05:38.190 --> 00:05:50.429 Mark Kushner: is that because the energy, the electrical energy, is not… is only limited by the power supply we can carry on the spacecraft, in principle, we can achieve much higher exhaust speeds. 43 00:05:50.710 --> 00:05:54.859 Mark Kushner: Than chemical propulsion, which is limited by the 44 00:05:55.090 --> 00:06:14.440 Mark Kushner: energy that can be released in chemical reactions, and that means, as the rocket equation tells us, that I am sure all of you have learned about, tells us that with these higher exhaust speeds, we can deliver a higher mass fraction to our final destination, and that's sort of the unique aspect of elective propulsion. 45 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:24.060 Mark Kushner: I know also that the Institute here, 46 00:06:24.590 --> 00:06:35.960 Mark Kushner: involves work, plasmas that is outside electric propulsion, so I thought, as I was looking through some of the interviews and some of the previous speakers that have, 47 00:06:36.170 --> 00:06:43.949 Mark Kushner: given talks at this institute, a wide range of plasma applications, so I thought it might be useful. 48 00:06:43.950 --> 00:07:02.010 Mark Kushner: To put things in context as far as the kinds of plasma environments we deal with in electrical pulsion, and show things in this general graph that plots typical plasma conditions with plasma density, electrical temperature on the vertical axis, plasma frequency in the bilength. 49 00:07:02.020 --> 00:07:05.440 Mark Kushner: To show you where the kinds of environments we're dealing with. 50 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:13.730 Mark Kushner: Reside relative to some of the… some other, typical plasma applications. 51 00:07:13.890 --> 00:07:24.090 Mark Kushner: We are in this relatively benign region of plasmas, so I'm talking about temperatures that are in the order of a few to tens of electron volts. 52 00:07:24.090 --> 00:07:41.610 Mark Kushner: Plasma densities in this region of 10 to 11, 10 to the 12th cubic centimeter, and certainly nowhere near some of these other plasma beasts that exist in this region of this plot, like, for example, conditions that are 53 00:07:41.880 --> 00:07:56.009 Mark Kushner: generated in the Z machine. Some of you may recognize it. This is, I believe, still the largest X-ray generator in the world, in the Z machine, which is a plasma generator at Sandia National Labs. 54 00:07:56.140 --> 00:07:59.510 Mark Kushner: And they create conditions that are truly 55 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:07.740 Mark Kushner: mind bending. For example, we're talking about 100 terawatts in a single pulse. 56 00:08:08.310 --> 00:08:19.030 Mark Kushner: with plasma temperatures that reach somewhere in the order of 100 keV, and tens of megauss of magnetic fields during the implosion of the liners. 57 00:08:19.130 --> 00:08:26.249 Mark Kushner: We get excited if you exceed… if we exceed a few hundred cows in multiple clusters. So, very different environments. 58 00:08:26.420 --> 00:08:36.840 Mark Kushner: Not only in terms of plasma conditions, but also in terms of spatial scales that we're dealing with. These are, you know, typical laboratory discharge devices. 59 00:08:37.010 --> 00:08:56.420 Mark Kushner: Nothing too, too fancy about them, and certainly a little bit smaller than some of these astrophysical plasmas that sometimes, we work on. I was fortunate enough many years ago to do plasma simulations. In fact, these are some of my simulations that I used with an idea… that I 60 00:08:56.430 --> 00:09:01.759 Mark Kushner: developed with a… an ideal MHD code, a Magrido Hydrodynamics code. 61 00:09:01.830 --> 00:09:08.389 Mark Kushner: of turbulence in galaxy clusters. These are clusters of galaxies, not one galaxy. 62 00:09:08.540 --> 00:09:11.689 Mark Kushner: And these are regions in space that exist 63 00:09:11.810 --> 00:09:26.159 Mark Kushner: And they're a bit large, so the unit here for spatial size is in the order of megaparsecs, so just to give you an idea of what that is, 10 megaparsecs is about, a little over. 64 00:09:26.160 --> 00:09:34.050 Mark Kushner: 10 to the 16 Earth diameters. So a little bit bigger than the devices that we're dealing with here, just to give you a sort of a context of 65 00:09:34.760 --> 00:09:38.440 Mark Kushner: Both special, scales and conditions. 66 00:09:39.730 --> 00:09:41.910 Mark Kushner: So, some of these, 67 00:09:42.320 --> 00:10:00.269 Mark Kushner: electric propulsion devices that I just showed to the lower left, actually reached a flight, flight-qualified maturity very early on, as I show you here some of the different thrusters that have been used. 68 00:10:00.300 --> 00:10:03.170 Mark Kushner: Both by government and the industry. 69 00:10:03.220 --> 00:10:20.029 Mark Kushner: And last time I presented this chart, which was back in 2020, I deliberately wanted to include, you know, the old data. At that time, there were about a little over 1,200 satellites with electric propulsion in space. 70 00:10:20.270 --> 00:10:35.810 Mark Kushner: And now, in 2025, that number exceeds several thousands, and that's a number that's largely been driven by the frequent launches of SpaceX's Starlink, which is a spacecraft that has all thrusters. 71 00:10:36.710 --> 00:10:39.869 Mark Kushner: So, certainly, a, a… 72 00:10:40.150 --> 00:10:47.170 Mark Kushner: significant increase in the presence of electrical propulsion in space. And, 73 00:10:47.480 --> 00:11:01.040 Mark Kushner: The investment in the commercial sector in electropulsion satellites is only expected to increase, on average, in the next decade. 74 00:11:02.910 --> 00:11:13.960 Mark Kushner: So, all these thrusters that I mentioned, all these missions that I mentioned, include also international missions, as I list here some of the more 75 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:17.440 Mark Kushner: You know, well-known, international missions. 76 00:11:17.620 --> 00:11:20.399 Mark Kushner: From various agencies worldwide. 77 00:11:20.500 --> 00:11:32.610 Mark Kushner: Pepe Colombo here is mission to Mercury, and it was originally on a 7-year journey to the planet. 78 00:11:32.640 --> 00:11:44.460 Mark Kushner: was supposed to, enter orbit, next month, on the 5th of December. It has been delayed somewhat, but it's still on its way there. 79 00:11:44.650 --> 00:11:53.180 Mark Kushner: And it's a first… it's a mission that we contributed to. We're fortunate at JPL to contribute to with our modeling work. 80 00:11:53.300 --> 00:12:11.559 Mark Kushner: using our hollow cathode simulations to support their qualification of the neutralizer cathodes. These are… this is a spacecraft that employs Kauffman-type ion thrusters, so we supported their qualification of the neutralizer cathodes. 81 00:12:15.030 --> 00:12:23.410 Mark Kushner: So, it seems, then, that the presence of electric propulsion in space is quite prevalent. 82 00:12:23.730 --> 00:12:33.289 Mark Kushner: But what I failed to point out is that almost all of these thousands of spacecraft that I mentioned 83 00:12:33.770 --> 00:12:38.240 Mark Kushner: almost all of them are in near-Earth orbits. 84 00:12:38.690 --> 00:12:46.829 Mark Kushner: In fact, indeed, there's only a handful of missions that have flown with EP in deep space. 85 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:56.379 Mark Kushner: And the reason for that is because these missions require operation by these thrusters for very long periods of time, whereas 86 00:12:56.380 --> 00:13:09.150 Mark Kushner: In near-Earth orbit, the electropulsion is typically used intermittently, and therefore doesn't require as much… as much lifetime as some of these deeper space missions. So, for example. 87 00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:11.360 Mark Kushner: our Dawn mission. 88 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:21.070 Mark Kushner: which was a mission to the most massive bodies in the asteroid belt, Vesta and Sirius, launched back in 2007. 89 00:13:21.410 --> 00:13:28.210 Mark Kushner: And it had 3 30 centimeter ion engines on it. 90 00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:39.530 Mark Kushner: accumulated by the end of its extended mission in 2018, about 6 years of operation of this iron engines. 91 00:13:39.890 --> 00:13:56.229 Mark Kushner: So then, the challenge becomes… it's starting to become quite evident. That is, when you're dealing with such long operations, the question is, how do you demonstrate that these thrusters will last for as long as we want them to last? 92 00:13:56.380 --> 00:14:06.039 Mark Kushner: In a facility. Do you test them for the total amount of time? 6 years in this case, or 9 engine, or do you… 93 00:14:06.390 --> 00:14:07.480 Mark Kushner: Test them. 94 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:24.819 Mark Kushner: only for a fraction of that time? And if yes, is that good enough? What about failure modes that may present themselves, reveal themselves, at some point later in the mission, after the termination of a test? 95 00:14:24.910 --> 00:14:27.740 Mark Kushner: That did not test them for the entire period. 96 00:14:28.090 --> 00:14:42.099 Mark Kushner: What about operating conditions? Do you test them for all the operating conditions, or just a fraction of them? And if the latter, is that sufficient? So that is then, as you are beginning to realize, the main challenge that has also 97 00:14:42.210 --> 00:14:48.110 Mark Kushner: led to this much fewer number of deep space missions, with electric launches. 98 00:14:54.440 --> 00:15:00.129 Mark Kushner: So, clearly then, The answer to how you do this must. 99 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:08.080 Mark Kushner: Come in the way of a combination between Carefully designed wear tests. 100 00:15:08.410 --> 00:15:22.479 Mark Kushner: and rigorous physics-based modeling, because that is the only way that we can achieve a very cost-effective and timely, qualification… strategy for qualification of EP for our missions, or our deep space missions. 101 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:24.540 Mark Kushner: And the reason for that is that 102 00:15:24.880 --> 00:15:29.830 Mark Kushner: On the side of wear tests, These tests provide to us. 103 00:15:30.670 --> 00:15:34.140 Mark Kushner: Are an invaluable source of information. 104 00:15:34.350 --> 00:15:42.770 Mark Kushner: About failure modes, when they occur. But they also, for example, when they occur, and what is their nature. 105 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:48.159 Mark Kushner: But, as you can imagine, these tests can be quite cumbersome. 106 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:51.180 Mark Kushner: And time-consuming, and costly. 107 00:15:51.350 --> 00:15:59.069 Mark Kushner: And only provide us a small sample of all the processes that led to the failure. 108 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:04.910 Mark Kushner: On the other side, models, if done accurately, rigorously. 109 00:16:05.020 --> 00:16:16.299 Mark Kushner: Can provide us an unprecedented insight, an insight at a level of detail that is unmatched by most of these wear tests. 110 00:16:16.510 --> 00:16:33.969 Mark Kushner: But they're very complex, and they require, as I will try to share with you in the rest of the presentation, they're very complex, and they require rigorous validation from some of these tests and additional experiments that are, you know, dedicated to 111 00:16:34.130 --> 00:16:43.780 Mark Kushner: specifically to provide plasma measurements for model validation. So the main takeaway is that we need a combination of these things as the only way to, you know, achieve 112 00:16:44.270 --> 00:16:49.700 Mark Kushner: Truly a cost-efficient and timely qualification process for deep space missions. 113 00:16:51.490 --> 00:17:09.300 Mark Kushner: So, which brings me to the point that I made a little bit earlier about why it is that the complexity of these plasmas in electric propulsion was one of the reasons that we found ourselves in this, long, protracted path, in supporting, 114 00:17:09.520 --> 00:17:12.979 Mark Kushner: our missions, for deep space. 115 00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:21.430 Mark Kushner: And so, in addition to some of the extensive mathematical governing laws, some of which I will share with you today. 116 00:17:21.550 --> 00:17:27.559 Mark Kushner: That can also be computationally intensive, in terms of solving them numerically. 117 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:32.880 Mark Kushner: We also have to deal with a wide range of spatial temporal scales. 118 00:17:33.010 --> 00:17:38.970 Mark Kushner: That include… that must include very important interactions between the plasma and the walls. 119 00:17:39.070 --> 00:17:56.300 Mark Kushner: And all of these things, of course, require, as I mentioned in the previous chart, rigorous model validation by diagnostics, plasma diagnostics that themselves are not very trivial. They're also quite complicated, costly, and can sometimes be difficult to interpret, just like 120 00:17:56.300 --> 00:17:59.909 Mark Kushner: Numerical simulation results can sometimes be difficult to interpret. 121 00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:09.569 Mark Kushner: So… I appreciate that by sharing these next couple charts, I might be running the risk of 122 00:18:09.710 --> 00:18:26.820 Mark Kushner: scaring everybody with this petrifying prospect that the rest of the presentation is going to be some kind of a deep dive into very difficult equations and mathematical terms. I promise you it is not. I'm only going to use these next charts… that's two charts to make a point. 123 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.710 Mark Kushner: And that is… let us begin with… 124 00:18:30.890 --> 00:18:36.559 Mark Kushner: The typical, government equations for viscous hydrodynamics. 125 00:18:36.760 --> 00:18:50.329 Mark Kushner: with a continuity, momentum, and energy equation in a typical form that they're expressed with a stress tensor at the bottom. And when you try to update these equations 126 00:18:50.610 --> 00:18:51.410 Mark Kushner: with… 127 00:18:51.730 --> 00:19:11.680 Mark Kushner: plasmas and Max's equations, they become a bit more complicated. This is a particular type of approximation we call the resistive magnetohydrodynamics, which is typically more applicable to electric propulsion that produces higher density plasmas and high ionization fractions. 128 00:19:11.930 --> 00:19:28.870 Mark Kushner: And we've certainly applied these kinds of models before, but they're also, to electric propulsion, but they're also quite appropriate in other plasma applications that, produce very density… very high density plasmas, like in pulse power, fusion, and other areas. 129 00:19:28.930 --> 00:19:42.140 Mark Kushner: The point is that this becomes… this system becomes much more complicated, and notice here that I've actually also added an additional energy equation for the radiation field, because there are certain plasma 130 00:19:42.580 --> 00:19:53.950 Mark Kushner: situations, not particularly in electrical polio, but in other applications where the radiation field is non-equilibrium, and therefore you actually have to solve for an additional energy equation that can be, 131 00:19:54.070 --> 00:19:58.609 Mark Kushner: Modeled as a, as a, as a radiation temperature. 132 00:19:59.770 --> 00:20:02.260 Mark Kushner: So I also mentioned that, 133 00:20:02.380 --> 00:20:07.210 Mark Kushner: We are dealing… we have to deal with a very different 134 00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:27.550 Mark Kushner: wide-ranging spatial scales, and that's because we have to understand how these… the plumes from these electric propulsion devices interact with spacecraft. So we are worried about things like erosion of the solar arrays, interaction, collective currents, etc, by the various surfaces of the spacecraft. 135 00:20:27.550 --> 00:20:44.640 Mark Kushner: So we're talking… we're talking here about relatively lower plasma densities, because we're dealing with an expanded plume, but also scale sizes in the order of meters, which is what this spacecraft look like today. Then, of course, at the… at the next level, we have to… 136 00:20:45.760 --> 00:21:01.419 Mark Kushner: we have to deal with the, engine itself, so we're talking about modeling the plasma inside discharge chambers. So this is, this is a typical 30 centimeter ion engine that I'm showing there, so we're talking about tens of centimeters. 137 00:21:01.580 --> 00:21:06.859 Mark Kushner: higher plasma densities. Then these types of engines 138 00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:20.750 Mark Kushner: require operation of hollow cathodes. I will talk about cathodes a little bit later in more detail, but that means that now we're getting into even smaller scales of the order of the 139 00:21:20.750 --> 00:21:31.790 Mark Kushner: of the path of tube, which is in the order of centimeters, and also now we are also increasing the plasma density. And then, of course, we also need to deal with 140 00:21:31.790 --> 00:21:41.399 Mark Kushner: how the plasma behaves in that little small hole, which is the orifice of the cathode, and I will show you why it is that that orifice is very, very important. 141 00:21:41.830 --> 00:22:00.820 Mark Kushner: regarding the operation and the life of the devices, which can be as small as a few hundred micros. So we're dealing with widely varying spatial scales, and that's important because, compared to the size of the particular device that we're dealing with, it determines 142 00:22:00.830 --> 00:22:13.319 Mark Kushner: the mean free path for collisions relative to the… to the size of the device, as you have learned in your introductory courses in fluid mechanics or plasma physics, that will determine 143 00:22:13.320 --> 00:22:30.480 Mark Kushner: what range of the Knudsen number we're operating, and therefore will dictate to us what is an appropriate numerical approach to model these plasmas, which can vary between anywhere from one extreme, which is using continuum fluid mechanics. 144 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:35.350 Mark Kushner: To another… to the other extreme, where we follow, essentially, the particles individually. 145 00:22:35.630 --> 00:22:43.490 Mark Kushner: Or, statistically, in some way, through the distribution function, all falling under this category of kinetic methods. 146 00:22:47.190 --> 00:22:54.459 Mark Kushner: So, I'm… I appreciate that this is a bit late in the afternoon, and that this talk will be… 147 00:22:54.910 --> 00:23:02.300 Mark Kushner: may get a little bit long, so I thought you might break down the monotony if I shared with you. 148 00:23:02.430 --> 00:23:09.210 Mark Kushner: along the way, as I go from one topic to another, some relevant quotes from 149 00:23:09.790 --> 00:23:29.760 Mark Kushner: some true pioneers in science and engineering, like the few of them that I show here in this rare photo, when they actually got together in the late 1940s, to discuss so-called, at the time, electric spaceship propulsion. So, the point is that 150 00:23:29.870 --> 00:23:45.079 Mark Kushner: Electrical pulsion is actually never… not a very old… it's a very old idea. In fact, sometimes when I speak with the older generation, my academic advisor and others before him, they sometimes tell me that electrical pulsion is like 151 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.920 Mark Kushner: Old wine in Newport's names. 152 00:23:48.430 --> 00:23:51.660 Mark Kushner: So… Let me then talk about… 153 00:23:51.760 --> 00:24:02.459 Mark Kushner: electric spaceship propulsion, and go through some of the… get into a bit more detail about the operational principles of some of the thrusters I will be discussing today. 154 00:24:02.510 --> 00:24:13.240 Mark Kushner: Iron engines, as I show 3 of them here that are, you know, quite famous, because they're either flown on missions or are supposed to fly on missions. 155 00:24:13.330 --> 00:24:32.320 Mark Kushner: And they, accelerate the ions electrostatically through, through, two grids that are… are at different potentials, so they create, because of the different potential, plus potential, they create an electric field that accelerates these ions to small holes. 156 00:24:32.610 --> 00:24:37.030 Mark Kushner: That are… that are on these… on these two grids. 157 00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:42.980 Mark Kushner: And they operate with two hollow cathodes. 158 00:24:43.030 --> 00:24:46.969 Mark Kushner: The purpose of the cathodes are to provide electrons. 159 00:24:46.970 --> 00:25:05.809 Mark Kushner: In the case of the neutralizer, it provides electrons to neutralize the beam so that we don't charge up the spacecraft. In the case of this cathode inside the chamber, which we call the discharge hollow cathode, it is to provide electrons to ionize the propellant inside the chamber, which is then accelerated through this 160 00:25:05.950 --> 00:25:08.410 Mark Kushner: for the streets that I mentioned. 161 00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:17.059 Mark Kushner: For Hawk Rusters, the operational principle is a little bit different. 162 00:25:17.150 --> 00:25:35.959 Mark Kushner: So here, what we have is an annular channel, where there is an applied radial… largely radial applied magnetic field, and the cathode that can be either on the outside, as shown here, or in the middle, provides electrons that are… that then are attracted towards the anode, and have 163 00:25:36.070 --> 00:25:47.459 Mark Kushner: Have to cross magnetic field lines, as they make it into the anode, and they are, as we call them, strongly magnetized, and therefore they see the magnetic field and are 164 00:25:48.250 --> 00:26:06.760 Mark Kushner: changed by the presence of the magnetic field, their paths, that is, whereas the ions have a gyro radius that's much, much larger than the size of the device, and therefore are magnetized, and as these… these electrons are forced by the presence of the magnetic field to undergo an eco-speed drift, as we call it. 165 00:26:06.860 --> 00:26:18.159 Mark Kushner: It generates a whole current that interacts in turn with the applied magnetic field to produce the JCOSB, or Lorentz force, and that's the force that accelerates the ions. 166 00:26:21.800 --> 00:26:35.110 Mark Kushner: Holocathode is itself another very, very important device, because iron engines and hoh thrusters, as I have shown you, do not… cannot operate without it, without them. 167 00:26:35.250 --> 00:26:47.649 Mark Kushner: And it is a device that involves some very, very intriguing and complicated physics. Physics that span a very wide range of spatial scales. 168 00:26:47.780 --> 00:27:03.140 Mark Kushner: First of all, essentially, what we have is that we have the propellant. So it's a geometrically simple device, it's just a tube that has some special material here we call the emitter, that when you hit it, it emits electrons. 169 00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:09.419 Mark Kushner: And you heat it using this heater coil outside, typically. 170 00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:18.979 Mark Kushner: And what happens is that you provide… we provide the propellant from the back, and then these emitted electrons from the heated insert. 171 00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:26.200 Mark Kushner: Interact with the neutrals, ionize them, so you create a partially ionized… partially ionized gas. 172 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:48.800 Mark Kushner: But there are some… as this, as this plasma evolves inside this chamber, inside this tube, there are very important sheaths, very complicated, important sheaths, regions near the surfaces that develop, that make the simulation, the modeling of them quite complicated. There are highly non-linear boundary conditions that are coupled to the system. 173 00:27:48.970 --> 00:27:51.969 Mark Kushner: Governing laws in the chamber. 174 00:27:51.970 --> 00:28:16.230 Mark Kushner: And to complicate things further, as the neutral gas gets ionized, it is still dense enough and hot enough such that the viscous effects cannot be ignored. So we, in fact, in the neutral gas part, the governing laws that have to be solved are, in fact, the Navier-Stokes equations. So we have to solve, in addition to the Navier-Stokes, we have to solve the plasma equations, and we'll show you how they look. 175 00:28:16.230 --> 00:28:19.180 Mark Kushner: look like, but not get into too much detail, as I promised. 176 00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:26.440 Mark Kushner: And then, as the… as the gas, the neutral gas expands to the orifice, 177 00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:39.179 Mark Kushner: we begin to lose collisionality because it expands and the density is… is decreasing, and we are achieving conditions of higher Knudsen number when the fluid 178 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:48.320 Mark Kushner: Approaches that we used to model the interior evolution of the gas are no longer applicable, so it involves also, therefore, transition. 179 00:28:48.740 --> 00:29:06.359 Mark Kushner: or transitional models that can capture the transition between the collisional and the collisionless part of the neutral gas. And then add to that the fact that we extract electrons at high enough speeds that, as I will show you a little bit later, are enough 180 00:29:06.490 --> 00:29:22.940 Mark Kushner: to produce waves that can become unstable, that generate some turbulence in the plume, and then we also, in some cases, for discharge holocathodes, we also have an applied magnetic field that attempts to confine some of these electrons. So, very, very complicated system. 181 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:42.130 Mark Kushner: very intriguing physics, and very challenging to model. In fact, I have argued with many colleagues and some of the students, even in fact today, that, in fact, the problem of the whole cathode is actually much more complicated than any of the other thrusters that we're examining today, including the whole thruster. 182 00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:44.690 Mark Kushner: Okay. 183 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:50.410 Mark Kushner: So, Let me now get into, sort of the main… 184 00:29:50.810 --> 00:29:59.059 Mark Kushner: subject of today's presentation, which is about the physics models and their impact, and I couldn't think of a more 185 00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:06.600 Mark Kushner: Fitting segue… Than this very eloquent characterization of a model. 186 00:30:07.110 --> 00:30:14.380 Mark Kushner: By one of the truly, if not the most brilliant mathematicians of all time. 187 00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:19.400 Mark Kushner: In fact, one of his, high school… 188 00:30:19.610 --> 00:30:26.900 Mark Kushner: childhood friends, and also a colleague later, when they worked together on the Manhattan Project. 189 00:30:27.010 --> 00:30:39.619 Mark Kushner: His name is Eugene Wigner, also a physicist and a Nobel laureate, said about him that there are only two people, kinds of people, in this world. 190 00:30:39.850 --> 00:30:41.940 Mark Kushner: Johnny von Neumann and the rest of us. 191 00:30:42.410 --> 00:30:43.240 Mark Kushner: Sure. 192 00:30:44.060 --> 00:30:50.119 Mark Kushner: With that in mind, My first task when I joined JPL, 193 00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:56.869 Mark Kushner: Remember, my group supervisor at the time asked me that we need to build a holo cathode code in a week. 194 00:30:58.470 --> 00:31:05.319 Mark Kushner: So at the time, no such morals existed, and if they did, they were quite rudimentary. 195 00:31:05.550 --> 00:31:08.729 Mark Kushner: Of course, it took about a year to develop. 196 00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:18.119 Mark Kushner: Very long hours, and many years after that, to advance the models, validate them with additional measurements, etc, etc. 197 00:31:18.340 --> 00:31:35.729 Mark Kushner: But at the end, we produced the 2D orifice cathode code that we call ORCA2D today, that allowed us to, sort of, for the first time, to see how the plasma inside these cathodes really evolves, because by that time, we… 198 00:31:35.970 --> 00:31:55.110 Mark Kushner: really only had plasma measurements inside the cathode along the center line of the cathode, so we really didn't have a very accurate idea, at least not a comprehensive idea. There had been attempts before to model the cathode in 2D, but the models were quite rudimentary. 199 00:31:55.130 --> 00:32:11.900 Mark Kushner: So this was the first time where a truly comprehensive system of equations was developed, solved, with the appropriate sheath boundary conditions that captured the emission of the electrons from this thermionic boundary, thermionic emitter. 200 00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:18.239 Mark Kushner: It gave us a picture of what this plasma looked like, how it evolved, what it looked like in two dimensions. 201 00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:37.500 Mark Kushner: And then, of course, we extended this model from the interior to also include the exterior, so we can capture some of the plume properties and try to assess how the plasma responds to changes in things like the emission temperature, the diameter of the orifice. 202 00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:41.029 Mark Kushner: How these things affect the operation of the cathode and its life. 203 00:32:41.550 --> 00:32:53.460 Mark Kushner: And here, I just show a representative comparison between our simulation results for the plasma density and some of the measurements that were done, both inside and the outside. 204 00:32:54.150 --> 00:32:55.790 Mark Kushner: So, 205 00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:07.990 Mark Kushner: Several years later, in fact, about a decade later, we also saw other similar, computational tools and approaches like ORCA2D be developed in Europe. 206 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:20.640 Mark Kushner: So, the… the ORCA2D, enabled Okay, us two… 207 00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:37.000 Mark Kushner: be able to model processes and phenomena that we couldn't model before. I give you a few examples here. For example, we were able, with ORCA2D, after we started, you know, the validation, the advancement of the code. 208 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:48.920 Mark Kushner: To incorporate self-induced magnetic field effects that allowed us to model the plasma when you operate the cathode with much higher currents that we were used to 209 00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:56.910 Mark Kushner: at the time, so typically, ion engines that I showed earlier, like in the order of the 30 centimeter Deep Space 1 ion engine. 210 00:33:56.930 --> 00:34:07.629 Mark Kushner: operate with currents in the order of 10, 20 amps or so. Here, we want it to go up to 100 amps and 500 amps, where the self-induced magnetic field 211 00:34:07.630 --> 00:34:20.240 Mark Kushner: can no longer be ignored relative to the applied field, so we updated the code to be able to capture those things, and for the first time, we were able to do also plasma simulations of very high current cathodes. 212 00:34:20.850 --> 00:34:27.489 Mark Kushner: We also, incorporated cross-sections, that allowed us to model Argonne. 213 00:34:28.520 --> 00:34:36.400 Mark Kushner: cathodes like this. Another big effort that was very, very complicated was to couple the 214 00:34:36.650 --> 00:34:46.899 Mark Kushner: Plasma cathode code with a thermal model that allowed us, for the first time, to self-consistently compute the temperature of the emitter 215 00:34:46.940 --> 00:35:04.969 Mark Kushner: versus having to supply it by direct measurement, and that was a very complicated and cumbersome effort. And also, we were also able to capture the transport of barium, which is an important pregnant of these emitter materials. 216 00:35:04.970 --> 00:35:17.010 Mark Kushner: That facilitates the emission of electrons, and it was important for us at the time to know how this barium evolves after it gets released from the emitter inside the discharge. 217 00:35:18.680 --> 00:35:21.870 Mark Kushner: The… 218 00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:36.969 Mark Kushner: The benefits of ORCA Today were even more far-reaching than some of the examples that I showed you earlier, because it also served as the framework for the development of a new code. 219 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:53.619 Mark Kushner: that started, back in around 2008, that we called All2DE, which, is… so the ORCA2DE are essentially the same equations, but updated to include, applied magnetic fields. 220 00:35:54.220 --> 00:36:02.690 Mark Kushner: more appropriate sheath boundary conditions for the electrics versus conductors, and a number of other things. 221 00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:09.810 Mark Kushner: And it was the first code at the time that solved the governing equations for this type of discharge. 222 00:36:09.940 --> 00:36:25.270 Mark Kushner: on a mesh that was aligned with the magnetic field. And what that did was it allowed us to model hole thrusters with much more complicated magnetic field topologies, and I will show you a little bit later what the implications of that are. 223 00:36:25.650 --> 00:36:39.670 Mark Kushner: capability, were. So these codes, as, as Ben mentioned in the introduction, especially Ho Tuli, has been licensed to other institutions of academia, 224 00:36:39.670 --> 00:36:48.400 Mark Kushner: And the government and the private sector. I gave you a few examples here. And we're continuing to use it and, and, 225 00:36:48.400 --> 00:37:01.870 Mark Kushner: develop it and advance it further, and similar codes, again, like ORCA2D, started appearing in Europe several years later, where the governing equations were solved on magnetic field line measures. 226 00:37:06.590 --> 00:37:12.110 Mark Kushner: So, hold to the also, led to several firsts. 227 00:37:12.490 --> 00:37:13.890 Mark Kushner: allowed us to… 228 00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:27.829 Mark Kushner: do things that we couldn't do before with whole thruster simulations. One of them I mentioned already, the ability to do… to simulate the plasma and magnetic field line meshes. It allowed us not only to, 229 00:37:28.030 --> 00:37:42.020 Mark Kushner: Be able to model magnetic fields with complex topologies, but also, for the first time, because now the region can be extended much further downstream than previous codes could. 230 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:49.069 Mark Kushner: I give sort of the typical domain that previous codes before Hall2D were able to simulate. 231 00:37:49.210 --> 00:37:57.990 Mark Kushner: also allowed us to, self-consistently incorporate the whole of Taffet boundary, but in turn. 232 00:37:58.220 --> 00:38:03.999 Mark Kushner: Showed us, quite clearly, because now we were solving the electrons in 233 00:38:04.730 --> 00:38:20.150 Mark Kushner: purely in… truly in two dimensions, identified itself consistently what regions of the plasma deviate from some of the assumptions that were quite typical in Hofester simulations, one of them being the isothermality of the magnetic field lines. You can see here. 234 00:38:20.290 --> 00:38:33.880 Mark Kushner: The overlay of the electron temperature contours with the applied magnetic field, how they do not align, they don't match, which was expected, but it was rewarding to see that we're able to capture itself consistently. 235 00:38:34.460 --> 00:38:35.660 Mark Kushner: was also… 236 00:38:36.230 --> 00:38:53.250 Mark Kushner: we're able to do multi-channel both faster simulations. I… Ben was kind enough to show me that beast in their facility earlier on. I have not appreciated the… how big this is, even though I actually put the geometry in to simulate it, but it's one thing to see it, 237 00:38:53.410 --> 00:39:03.340 Mark Kushner: in front of you versus simulating. But nevertheless, this was the first time that we're able to, perform simulations of a nested hole thruster with hole 3D. 238 00:39:06.230 --> 00:39:12.970 Mark Kushner: By the time I arrived at JPL in the early 2000s. 239 00:39:12.990 --> 00:39:32.640 Mark Kushner: My colleagues had already advanced some of our existing codes intended to capture erosion of the grids in iron engines. These are the charge exchange 2D and 3D codes. And charge exchange, the name comes from the process that actually leads to the 240 00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:43.659 Mark Kushner: major cause of erosion in this grid. So remember that the ion engines accelerate ions by applying a different voltage between two grids, and then the ions 241 00:39:43.660 --> 00:39:56.549 Mark Kushner: pass through these small holes. I'll show a schematic of them here, and the electric field is designed, due to the geometry and the way the voltage is applied, is designed to 242 00:39:57.130 --> 00:40:10.250 Mark Kushner: Guide the ions, the high-energy ions, away from the grids, but what happens is because the gas is only partially ionized, it's not fully ionized, you always have some neutrals around. 243 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:12.490 Mark Kushner: And these neutrals 244 00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:32.270 Mark Kushner: There is a so… what we call a charge exchange collision that occurs between fast ions and these slow neutrals that is large enough to occur here at high enough rates to produce slow ions that in turn go back 245 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:40.469 Mark Kushner: Are attracted back through the sheath, to the grids and erode and lead to these 246 00:40:40.710 --> 00:40:51.170 Mark Kushner: what we call typical pits and grooves, erosion patterns, these holes over here that you see, that ultimately, as they grow larger, they lead to the failure of the engine. 247 00:40:57.460 --> 00:41:02.449 Mark Kushner: So, in fact, So we're talking about physics models and impact of these models. 248 00:41:02.850 --> 00:41:13.339 Mark Kushner: These models were used to design a new ion engine we call the Nuclear Electric Xenon Iron System, or Nexus, that was developed 249 00:41:13.490 --> 00:41:21.629 Mark Kushner: back in the early 2000s, for the JIMO mission. This was the Jupiter IC Moon's orbiter. 250 00:41:21.630 --> 00:41:34.269 Mark Kushner: Which was part of Project Prometheus back then, so we are old enough to remember. And this was an engine that was designed exclusively using these tools. 251 00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:41.029 Mark Kushner: And this was not… I should point out, this engine was not until about just a small 252 00:41:41.030 --> 00:41:56.370 Mark Kushner: incremental change from previous engines that I showed before that have already flown, like the 30 centimeter iron engine I showed in previous charts. This was a significant advancement of iron engines. This was a much larger engine, twice as large. 253 00:41:56.410 --> 00:42:09.520 Mark Kushner: And it also processed 10 times the flow rate as in previous engines. It was 10 times the power as in the 30 centimeter ion engine I showed before. And it was designed using these codes. 254 00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:17.390 Mark Kushner: So I'll show some of these examples here of predicted performance, and it was designed in a way that the grids did not erode. 255 00:42:18.430 --> 00:42:30.810 Mark Kushner: Unfortunately, the mission was canceled before we were able to fly it, but this engine exists at our laboratory, and it's a 60 centimeter iron engine that was designed and developed 256 00:42:31.050 --> 00:42:34.890 Mark Kushner: Solely based on the guidance of these models. 257 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:43.600 Mark Kushner: So, talking then about, as we get into the final stretch of the presentation. 258 00:42:44.320 --> 00:43:02.080 Mark Kushner: I wanted to give a few more examples to illustrate the relevance and the impact of these models, and I'm gonna… I have selected a few representative examples from some of the work that we did… done over the last two decades to sort of show you 259 00:43:02.100 --> 00:43:07.470 Mark Kushner: What we're able to do with these models, and how cool they have been. 260 00:43:10.560 --> 00:43:11.490 Mark Kushner: So… 261 00:43:12.080 --> 00:43:25.909 Mark Kushner: One puzzling problem that remained elusive for some time was, revealed by a long-duration test that NASA performed 262 00:43:26.700 --> 00:43:39.369 Mark Kushner: Back in the… in there, also in the early 2000s, of one of the, Deep Space One, spare ion engines. This is, again, a 30 centimeter ion engine. 263 00:43:39.750 --> 00:43:43.309 Mark Kushner: And this was a test that was, 264 00:43:43.470 --> 00:43:56.809 Mark Kushner: funded by NASA, and it lasted over 30,000 hours, and it was voluntarily ended, around, was it 2000… 265 00:43:57.920 --> 00:43:59.370 Mark Kushner: 2004. 266 00:44:00.110 --> 00:44:07.009 Mark Kushner: And what we found there was something that was very puzzling, and we didn't know how to explain it. 267 00:44:07.220 --> 00:44:16.740 Mark Kushner: That was… I mentioned that these engines operate with two cathodes. One of them is what we call the neutralizer cathode that provides electrons to neutralize the beam. 268 00:44:17.110 --> 00:44:21.069 Mark Kushner: And what happened is that, at the beginning, this is a cross… 269 00:44:21.330 --> 00:44:33.399 Mark Kushner: cutaway of the orifice of the neutralizer cathode that I show here, and you can see here its original shape at the start of the test. 270 00:44:33.640 --> 00:44:37.809 Mark Kushner: And what happened is that as the test evolved. 271 00:44:38.250 --> 00:44:48.090 Mark Kushner: After about 8,000 hours, we saw that there was enough erosion to open up this channel, this orifice here. 272 00:44:48.230 --> 00:44:50.340 Mark Kushner: To this kind of shape. 273 00:44:51.090 --> 00:44:54.310 Mark Kushner: But then, after the test continued. 274 00:44:54.540 --> 00:45:00.049 Mark Kushner: After 30,000 hours, that never really changed. It stayed at that shape. 275 00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:11.139 Mark Kushner: And we didn't really know why that was occurring, and obviously there were important implications about not knowing the answer to this problem, because an obvious question will be, well. 276 00:45:11.390 --> 00:45:24.630 Mark Kushner: If you don't know what caused the erosion and why it stopped, how do you know that if you put this cathode on the ion engine on the spacecraft, that if you change the operating condition somewhat, the behavior is not going to be different? 277 00:45:24.740 --> 00:45:28.060 Mark Kushner: How do you know that after 30,000 hours, it will not 278 00:45:28.600 --> 00:45:37.999 Mark Kushner: continue to erode again for some other reason. So there are many questions that brought up… that generated a high risk. 279 00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:41.609 Mark Kushner: That we had to… a problem that we had to understand. 280 00:45:42.190 --> 00:45:46.500 Mark Kushner: Let me also point out a very important point. 281 00:45:46.630 --> 00:45:54.009 Mark Kushner: Which is, this size, this diameter here, is about 250 microns. 282 00:45:54.130 --> 00:46:12.319 Mark Kushner: So, there is no probe that can enter that region and tell us what the conditions are that may hopefully inform the process that erodes. So, numerical simulation was the only way to answer, to try and investigate what happened. 283 00:46:14.140 --> 00:46:16.949 Mark Kushner: So we used our aquatic node. 284 00:46:25.520 --> 00:46:33.780 Mark Kushner: I should mention, to make things even more complicated, the discharge holo cathode, which was also 285 00:46:33.970 --> 00:46:36.299 Mark Kushner: Operated in this test. 286 00:46:37.150 --> 00:46:46.209 Mark Kushner: that had an orifice, I show the discharge collocathode here, that had an orifice that was a few times larger than the orifice of the neutralizer cathode. 287 00:46:46.470 --> 00:46:47.860 Mark Kushner: Never erode it. 288 00:46:48.410 --> 00:46:50.189 Mark Kushner: Did not change shape at all. 289 00:46:50.910 --> 00:46:53.559 Mark Kushner: So, we didn't know the answer to that either. 290 00:46:53.650 --> 00:47:08.060 Mark Kushner: And to make the long story short, then, is what the ORCA2D simulations showed us, is that because of the smaller orifice, the current density through the orifice was so much higher that it 291 00:47:08.060 --> 00:47:16.719 Mark Kushner: Forced plasma to sort of concentrate in this region, generating enough ions, much more ions than in this case. 292 00:47:16.990 --> 00:47:23.950 Mark Kushner: That when accelerated through the sheath that was created by the potential rise due to the resistive drop. 293 00:47:24.140 --> 00:47:36.500 Mark Kushner: Or enough to erode the orifice. But as the orifice kept getting bigger and bigger, at some point, the current density was reduced to such a level where the erosion stopped. 294 00:47:36.630 --> 00:47:52.519 Mark Kushner: And that is the reason why the erosion stopped, because it reached that current density, limiting current density, where it was no longer providing enough ions and enough energy to erode further the surface. And this is the comparison that we showed from 295 00:47:52.520 --> 00:48:02.180 Mark Kushner: Predictions of what simulations showed the erosion should be with the actual profile that was measured after the end of the test. 296 00:48:02.660 --> 00:48:04.329 Mark Kushner: So that was one example. 297 00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:07.320 Mark Kushner: Contributions and impact. 298 00:48:07.820 --> 00:48:09.840 Mark Kushner: of these models. Another one… 299 00:48:10.560 --> 00:48:29.939 Mark Kushner: is, shown here, where another long-standing problem that had, you know, remained elusive for a long time was what happens in the plume of these cathodes. And what we observed was that when we made measurements of the plasma conditions along the center line of this device. 300 00:48:30.450 --> 00:48:38.650 Mark Kushner: What we found was that our models Grossly underpredicted. 301 00:48:39.140 --> 00:48:45.329 Mark Kushner: the properties, I show one of them here, which is the electron… electron temperature. 302 00:48:45.490 --> 00:48:47.530 Mark Kushner: And, I'm sorry, there's a plasma potential. 303 00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:50.010 Mark Kushner: Grossly underpredicted that. 304 00:48:50.290 --> 00:48:57.230 Mark Kushner: as I show here, comparison between the prediction in our original simulations with the measurements. 305 00:48:57.990 --> 00:49:07.040 Mark Kushner: And what we found after, a lot of investigation is that, we realized 306 00:49:07.240 --> 00:49:17.009 Mark Kushner: That precisely because of this disagreement, we looked into the details of the conditions that are generated near this 307 00:49:17.240 --> 00:49:22.630 Mark Kushner: In this neoprene region, and found that these conditions are 308 00:49:23.220 --> 00:49:28.880 Mark Kushner: Appropriate for generating, growing, a particular type of wave. 309 00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:43.360 Mark Kushner: called the ion acoustic wave that can become unstable under these conditions, generating some turbulence that effectively increased the anomalous resistivity. And when we incorporated a model in our code. 310 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:46.799 Mark Kushner: That, sort of represented 311 00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:56.049 Mark Kushner: the… how the collision frequency increases in the presence of this turbulence, we got a much, much better agreement. This was the first time 312 00:49:56.290 --> 00:50:01.309 Mark Kushner: After many years of experimental investigations of these devices. 313 00:50:01.540 --> 00:50:10.439 Mark Kushner: That, what proposed the presence of iron acoustic turbulence in these devices, and it was a, it was a new finding. 314 00:50:13.190 --> 00:50:16.959 Mark Kushner: So, what came a few years later. 315 00:50:17.690 --> 00:50:21.360 Mark Kushner: Was, we were lucky enough to have with us 316 00:50:21.700 --> 00:50:25.440 Mark Kushner: A very talented and young engineer at the time. 317 00:50:25.720 --> 00:50:34.400 Mark Kushner: The, at the time, refers to the young, not the talented, who, was able to, apply some 318 00:50:34.820 --> 00:50:43.570 Mark Kushner: very, cool diagnostics to… and some of these… some of your students today are enjoying the benefits of 319 00:50:43.740 --> 00:50:50.399 Mark Kushner: Of all of this, diagnostics that capture directly, measure directly the dispersion of these waves. 320 00:50:51.560 --> 00:51:00.730 Mark Kushner: Confirming, for the first time, the presence of… very clearly the presence of this… of this, an acoustic turbulence in the plume. 321 00:51:01.630 --> 00:51:14.470 Mark Kushner: And it was… it was a… it was a very rewarding effort, because it was first a theoretical prediction that these waves exist, and then, of course, came the experimental verification. So it was a… it was an excellent 322 00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:28.000 Mark Kushner: Excellent work. And then, of course, now, today, as I look at some of the papers and the work that others are doing as well, most of the CAFET models nowadays 323 00:51:28.430 --> 00:51:37.430 Mark Kushner: and sort of pursue a method and strategy similar to work at today, incorporate some kind of an anomalies resistivity model based on ionacoustic waves. 324 00:51:42.870 --> 00:51:45.940 Mark Kushner: So, continuing on the theme of… 325 00:51:47.950 --> 00:51:57.199 Mark Kushner: discharge dynamics in these cathodes. Another long-standing problem was the so-called spot-to-plum mode transition. 326 00:51:57.740 --> 00:52:10.029 Mark Kushner: That is, this is a very, very old problem, so what happened is that in the 1960s, when they were evaluating these cathodes for employment in iron engines and ultimately in spacecraft. 327 00:52:10.250 --> 00:52:18.809 Mark Kushner: They found that if they operated the cathode at high enough flow rates, the discharge evolved in the plume 328 00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:26.540 Mark Kushner: In a very confined, region, almost looked like a spot, that's why they called it the spot mode. 329 00:52:26.670 --> 00:52:37.890 Mark Kushner: But then what they found is that as they started reducing the flow rate, they found that the spatial extent of the plume changed 330 00:52:38.700 --> 00:52:40.359 Mark Kushner: very clearly. 331 00:52:40.530 --> 00:52:49.300 Mark Kushner: But more importantly, is that they found that the level of fluctuations The level of fluctuations 332 00:52:49.480 --> 00:53:07.850 Mark Kushner: measured in the keeper, in this case, of the cathode, also increased. And that was very important because this increase of fluctuations led to significant increases in the erosion of the tube of the whole cathode. 333 00:53:08.850 --> 00:53:11.660 Mark Kushner: And therefore, it was a failure mode. 334 00:53:12.030 --> 00:53:15.429 Mark Kushner: That limited the application of these devices. 335 00:53:16.110 --> 00:53:28.969 Mark Kushner: And we didn't really have a good understanding of what leads to the change, what are the conditions and why one transitions from the spot to blue mode. 336 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:37.310 Mark Kushner: And this was a problem that had remained elusive, unresolved since the 1960s and 70s, as I said. 337 00:53:37.950 --> 00:53:40.350 Mark Kushner: And, of course, she mentioned that 338 00:53:40.610 --> 00:53:51.280 Mark Kushner: The approach then, because we didn't have a very… we didn't have any good understanding of why these modes occur, the approach then was to test and test again. 339 00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:56.370 Mark Kushner: So it was essentially, Testing these devices. 340 00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:03.970 Mark Kushner: In a wide range of operating conditions, changing the current, changing the… changing the mass flow rate, and sort of create an envelope 341 00:54:04.090 --> 00:54:11.740 Mark Kushner: Where, empirically, the, The limits of stability were defined. 342 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:17.399 Mark Kushner: And that gave us the guidance of where not to operate these cafes. 343 00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:21.070 Mark Kushner: It was a very… a truly empirical approach. 344 00:54:22.350 --> 00:54:26.450 Mark Kushner: So, what happened then? 345 00:54:29.430 --> 00:54:30.970 Mark Kushner: So what happened then. 346 00:54:31.510 --> 00:54:37.789 Mark Kushner: We managed to secure some funding to go after this problem and used our OCA2D code. 347 00:54:38.430 --> 00:54:44.400 Mark Kushner: to, simulate this device and try to understand 348 00:54:44.610 --> 00:54:59.530 Mark Kushner: remote, and for the first time, we were able to actually capture some of these dynamics in a manner that also agreed, as I show here, between comparisons between the fluctuations of the keeper voltage 349 00:54:59.730 --> 00:55:14.419 Mark Kushner: And the fluctuations we're calculating in the simulation code sort of capture the trend of increasing fluctuations according to the measurements as we reduce the flow rate in this particular cathode, which is about a 25 ampoly cathode. 350 00:55:14.600 --> 00:55:33.080 Mark Kushner: And we found that these are waves that are frequency much slower than the ionacoustic waves, but at a higher phase velocity, and they are related, without getting into too much detail, they're related to how the gas is ionized and some of the 351 00:55:33.080 --> 00:55:36.379 Mark Kushner: The… the dynamics associated with the ionization. 352 00:55:37.050 --> 00:55:42.399 Mark Kushner: But that was the first time that we were also able to capture some of these dynamics. 353 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:48.099 Mark Kushner: For this very long-standing problem of spot plume mode transitions. 354 00:55:49.640 --> 00:56:06.300 Mark Kushner: So, let me switch now to… switch gears to hole thrusters as we get into the final stretch. So, hole thrusters, the main failure mode, used to be the erosion of the channel. I show here some measurements of, 355 00:56:06.460 --> 00:56:11.120 Mark Kushner: I think these were from an SPT100 measurements that were done in Russia. 356 00:56:11.200 --> 00:56:19.409 Mark Kushner: A test, a long test, where you can see how the ions that are… that are accelerated from the channel 357 00:56:19.410 --> 00:56:32.290 Mark Kushner: not controlled properly, they have enough energy to bombard the surfaces, the surface of the chamber, surfaces here, and start eroding it away. So you can see here how the channel opens up. 358 00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:48.200 Mark Kushner: And ultimately, if it continues to open up, even though the erosion rates begin to decrease, they are never… they never reach a zero level, and therefore, as they continue to… as the channel continues to open up. 359 00:56:48.400 --> 00:57:03.149 Mark Kushner: ultimately, the ions, the magnets are exposed to the ion beam, and when they start to get bombarded, then we get failure of the engine, because the magnetic field is no longer. So. 360 00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:04.900 Mark Kushner: That's sort of the main… 361 00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:19.739 Mark Kushner: used to be the main failure mode for whole thrusters, and I show here one picture of what happens to the thruster. This particular thruster that was developed by collaboration between a French company and 362 00:57:20.090 --> 00:57:31.879 Mark Kushner: Russian company, the PPS1350, how thrust it looked like, but all this erosion after 10… a little over 10,000 hours of… of testing. 363 00:57:36.750 --> 00:57:38.769 Mark Kushner: So, she pointed out that this was… 364 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:49.490 Mark Kushner: This lack of understanding of how and why the channel roads was a main reason why hull thrusters, for five decades. 365 00:57:49.640 --> 00:57:52.229 Mark Kushner: But never been flown on a deep space mission. 366 00:57:56.590 --> 00:57:57.870 Mark Kushner: So… 367 00:57:58.010 --> 00:58:08.640 Mark Kushner: One of the problems that remains elusive today that is directly related with our ability to, predict erosion 368 00:58:09.270 --> 00:58:24.070 Mark Kushner: is this so-called anomalous transport problem, where we do not fully understand how electrons that come from the cathode, that I showed you earlier, get into the anode. 369 00:58:25.020 --> 00:58:38.289 Mark Kushner: traverse the applied magnetic field and reach the anode. It appears from measurements that the transport of the electrons occurs at a rate that's much different than classical collisions. 370 00:58:38.410 --> 00:58:39.550 Mark Kushner: predict. 371 00:58:39.730 --> 00:58:48.370 Mark Kushner: And this is very important. Our lack of understanding for this process is quite important, because, as you can see here. 372 00:58:48.970 --> 00:58:58.090 Mark Kushner: from measurements of the ion velocity that are shown here in symbols along the center line Of the channel. 373 00:58:58.380 --> 00:59:02.639 Mark Kushner: You can see here that, if you… 374 00:59:03.090 --> 00:59:11.000 Mark Kushner: Simulate, capture the ion velocity profile to be close to the measurements, but 375 00:59:11.410 --> 00:59:26.220 Mark Kushner: not exactly the measurements. So you have… I show here, two different solutions that are quite close to the measurements, and one, if we didn't know any better, if we didn't have erosion measurements, one could claim that both of these solutions are accurate enough. 376 00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:39.799 Mark Kushner: But it turns out that even these small differences in the ion velocity can cause a significantly different result in our prediction erosion. So what I show here is data 377 00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:55.359 Mark Kushner: Of the wear rate of this part of the channel… of the channel here of this particular whole thruster, and how it is that the erosion prediction is significantly different if you use one velocity profile, which is still close to the measurements, compared to the other. 378 00:59:55.420 --> 00:59:57.949 Mark Kushner: So it's a very, very challenging problem. 379 00:59:58.200 --> 01:00:06.480 Mark Kushner: Not only from the fact that we don't understand the mechanism that leads to this enhanced transport, but also how sensitive it is, how the erosion results are sensitive to it. 380 01:00:09.110 --> 01:00:17.549 Mark Kushner: So, what we're looking for, then, is… because we want to do… we want to perform… be able to perform these simulations fast enough. 381 01:00:17.790 --> 01:00:21.720 Mark Kushner: We cannot afford… particle codes. 382 01:00:21.740 --> 01:00:37.529 Mark Kushner: that, resolve the electron dynamics, because that would be prohibitively, costly from a computational point of view. So what we're looking for is we're looking for analytical models that are physics-based, we call them closure models. 383 01:00:37.530 --> 01:00:52.040 Mark Kushner: that can, we can use in 2DX isometric simulations, that can be performed fast enough to have a meaningful impact on our assessment of electrical partial devices, like OFASTOS. That's sort of the quest 384 01:00:52.080 --> 01:01:09.520 Mark Kushner: the big drive behind the problem that you sometimes hear called the anomalous transport problem in all factors. So we're looking for a transport coefficient that accurately represents the physics of whatever mechanism it is that drives anomalous transport of these electrodes. 385 01:01:11.110 --> 01:01:26.979 Mark Kushner: So I mentioned earlier the value of having a lot of measurements. I've discussed with students at lunch today how important that is. Here's one example of why that has been a significant and invaluable source of information for us. 386 01:01:27.010 --> 01:01:46.789 Mark Kushner: the range of different measurements that we have been able to accumulate through the last 10 or 15 years of testing different horses has provided us with the ability to test different theoretical models, different theories. In this particular case. 387 01:01:46.890 --> 01:01:55.250 Mark Kushner: Recently, we were able to use this data to guide the theoretical derivations of a new model that we produced. 388 01:01:55.510 --> 01:02:08.170 Mark Kushner: an analytical expression of which is shown here on the top, that seemed to yield very good agreement, given the velocity of the electron. So what I show here are comparisons 389 01:02:08.170 --> 01:02:19.580 Mark Kushner: Different operating conditions and different hull thrusters, showing comparisons between the ion velocity and the data, that when you use them in numerical simulations. 390 01:02:19.580 --> 01:02:38.990 Mark Kushner: they produce an anomalous collision frequency profile that I show here in the symbols, that essentially serve as our empirical model of the collision frequency, which is therefore what we're trying to match. And you can see here the 391 01:02:39.020 --> 01:02:55.690 Mark Kushner: The blue, which is the predictions from the theoretical model, how well they match different operating conditions and different thrusters. So thrusters that I mentioned here vary in size significantly, so we have a thruster here that is as big as a Sora can. 392 01:02:56.170 --> 01:02:58.010 Mark Kushner: All the way up to, 393 01:02:58.130 --> 01:03:14.270 Mark Kushner: a much higher power, 12-kilowatt level hole thruster that's about 80 centimeters in diameter. So a wide range of not only operating conditions, but also size. So this was very promising. The physics behind this are described in some of my papers. 394 01:03:14.340 --> 01:03:29.619 Mark Kushner: We argue that is some combination of electrostatic instabilities in the electron cyclotron range and the lower hybrid range that sort of combine to saturate and lead to this anomorous transport. That is what we argue. 395 01:03:29.950 --> 01:03:44.620 Mark Kushner: And the challenge, however, is to now implement it in 2D axis metric simulations, and that is very challenging, because of the… especially in frameworks that solve generalized Ohm's law. 396 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:58.009 Mark Kushner: But what we, what we found recently was, a, company from, from Europe that is developing, fully kinetic codes. 397 01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:07.719 Mark Kushner: wanted to try out our model. Again, our whole2D code is not a fully kinetic code, that is, it doesn't 398 01:04:08.110 --> 01:04:11.760 Mark Kushner: Capture directly the dynamics of the electrons. 399 01:04:12.110 --> 01:04:13.360 Mark Kushner: But they do. 400 01:04:13.570 --> 01:04:24.400 Mark Kushner: And they tried our model, and what I'm about to show you here is an animation of how the plasma evolved in the numerical simulations, but what I wanted to point out 401 01:04:24.450 --> 01:04:39.350 Mark Kushner: is, look at these profiles over here and how they will evolve. In particular, this red line over here, which is the anomalous collision frequency, which is what we're looking for, starting from a cold start. 402 01:04:39.350 --> 01:04:50.579 Mark Kushner: So you can see here that they didn't start from a state that was already close to the steady state, and how it evolves and remains in steady state. 403 01:04:58.550 --> 01:05:02.440 Mark Kushner: So, you can see here that, that the, 404 01:05:02.490 --> 01:05:18.149 Mark Kushner: Anomalous collision frequency evolves to achieve a shape as we expect it to be, and the ion velocity also achieves the same kind of qualitative profile as we expect. 405 01:05:18.150 --> 01:05:27.110 Mark Kushner: And it remains in steady state, it doesn't break up, it doesn't… doesn't destabilize, and these are sort of the… the traces of the… 406 01:05:27.110 --> 01:05:46.180 Mark Kushner: the currents that the code computes. There's still a lot to learn about the code. We try to understand how exactly the simulations will perform to make sure that these results are real, but I wanted to share with you these first attempts from 2D… 2.5D kinetic codes 407 01:05:46.180 --> 01:06:02.510 Mark Kushner: seem to be incorporating our theoretical model using a Monte Carlo collision operator, and seem to be getting some very promising results. So on our part, at the laboratory, we're trying to reproduce some of these results. 408 01:06:02.510 --> 01:06:07.889 Mark Kushner: But using our own code, by adding some terms in our governing equations that we think 409 01:06:07.890 --> 01:06:11.269 Mark Kushner: might be representative of what they're able to capture, and we can at the moment. 410 01:06:15.890 --> 01:06:33.649 Mark Kushner: But even in the absence of fully predictive anomalous transport models, I wanted to emphasize that these codes are still invaluable for our mission. So, even if we take, measurements of the 411 01:06:34.200 --> 01:06:50.909 Mark Kushner: effective measurements of the anomalous transport model that we are missing, and incorporate it in our codes, so essentially using the measurements as our closure model, you can still get, have an invaluable impact from these codes. And what I show here are 412 01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:55.520 Mark Kushner: Is… is how the code was used to inform 413 01:06:55.660 --> 01:07:02.450 Mark Kushner: our Psyche mission, which is the mission that was launched to the, 414 01:07:02.740 --> 01:07:10.689 Mark Kushner: to the dwarf planet of Psyche, which is a metal, metal, small body. 415 01:07:10.890 --> 01:07:20.649 Mark Kushner: And it was launched in 2023, and it was the first mission that employed all thrusters beyond lunar orbit. 416 01:07:21.210 --> 01:07:30.689 Mark Kushner: And it was important for us to know, even though the live test that they run prior to the launch of the mission, extended 417 01:07:31.640 --> 01:07:35.079 Mark Kushner: Longer than the required lifetime of the thruster. 418 01:07:35.490 --> 01:07:50.799 Mark Kushner: The mission still needed to understand whether the life of the thruster would still be sufficient if, for example, we're in the position to change slightly operating conditions, or to change the thrusting profile. 419 01:07:51.310 --> 01:08:05.370 Mark Kushner: So, what we did here is that we used our code and validated it with live test measurements of the erosion of the channel. This is the channel of this particular thruster we call the SPT140. 420 01:08:05.540 --> 01:08:22.619 Mark Kushner: And then used our models to predict what the erosion would look like, given certain, thrusting profiles that were slightly different than the original mission I envisioned. And we found that… we predicted that there were no, 421 01:08:22.700 --> 01:08:41.550 Mark Kushner: No, there was really no risk, and that the mission could operate, with these, different profiles, and that was an important… an important finding for, decision makers for these missions, and allowed for the launch of this mission back in 2023. 422 01:08:44.979 --> 01:08:46.369 Mark Kushner: So, 423 01:08:47.040 --> 01:08:56.940 Mark Kushner: The final three charts here, is, one of our, another major breakthrough that we were fortunate enough to 424 01:08:57.510 --> 01:09:11.370 Mark Kushner: to get to, and it was associated with the erosion of the… of these whole thrusters. I mentioned that not understanding… I mentioned earlier that not understanding how the erosion of this particular thruster evolves was a 425 01:09:11.819 --> 01:09:14.629 Mark Kushner: It was the main reason why these thrusters didn't fly. 426 01:09:14.819 --> 01:09:17.130 Mark Kushner: For 5 decades since their inception. 427 01:09:17.250 --> 01:09:20.670 Mark Kushner: And one of the things that, we found 428 01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:38.250 Mark Kushner: from testing simulations was the following. So there was a test that was run over a particular commercial hole thruster called, like, the BPT4000, where they found that after running the test for about 429 01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:46.979 Mark Kushner: 5,000 hours, Until that point, the channel eroded as… People had expected. 430 01:09:47.160 --> 01:09:54.369 Mark Kushner: But, like in that neutralizing cathode that I shared with you earlier, the erosion after 5,000 hours essentially stopped. 431 01:09:54.970 --> 01:10:00.890 Mark Kushner: This had never… had never been seen before, and the reasons for it was not… were not known. 432 01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:09.139 Mark Kushner: The implications of not knowing was, in fact, or in fact, as you can imagine, Quite serious, because… 433 01:10:09.260 --> 01:10:11.049 Mark Kushner: If this was a real effect. 434 01:10:11.530 --> 01:10:15.889 Mark Kushner: And there was something happening in the thruster that allowed us 435 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:26.119 Mark Kushner: To, have a much longer life, that would have incredible Incredibly favorable implications for us. 436 01:10:26.310 --> 01:10:28.740 Mark Kushner: But we didn't know whether this was… 437 01:10:29.390 --> 01:10:34.899 Mark Kushner: Not really a true effect, and it was… Either a facility effect. 438 01:10:35.040 --> 01:10:39.789 Mark Kushner: Or some kind of an anomaly, since we have never seen behavior like this before. 439 01:10:39.990 --> 01:10:42.660 Mark Kushner: An anomaly that would not happen again. 440 01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:48.080 Mark Kushner: So it was very important for us, then, to look into this in much more detail. 441 01:10:48.940 --> 01:10:51.789 Mark Kushner: And Hall 2D at the time was, in fact. 442 01:10:52.190 --> 01:11:11.290 Mark Kushner: Built on a magnetic field aligned mesh precisely to allow us to simulate magnetic field topologies of this level of complexity, because as the channel eroded, it exposed features of the magnetic field that could not be modeled by previous codes. 443 01:11:11.360 --> 01:11:19.900 Mark Kushner: So that is… that was essentially the motivation for us building the whole thruster code that I described earlier with a magnetic field of light mesh. 444 01:11:21.210 --> 01:11:22.720 Mark Kushner: So what we found… 445 01:11:25.600 --> 01:11:35.750 Mark Kushner: was what we call today the magnetic shielding first principles, which is essentially that the magnetic field topology that was exposed 446 01:11:35.950 --> 01:11:49.440 Mark Kushner: was of a particular shape that, when combined… I'm going to keep it at a high level here. There, as you can imagine, for the last 10 years, there have been several general publications explaining these physics, but essentially what happened is that the 447 01:11:49.440 --> 01:11:57.440 Mark Kushner: The physics of the ions as they pass by the channel, and the particular topology of the magnetic field. 448 01:11:58.110 --> 01:12:16.370 Mark Kushner: essentially protected the walls from bombardment of the ions. As I show here, the… what the plasma properties that are relevant to ion erosion looked like in the beginning of the test, and what they look like when this magnetic field is exposed. 449 01:12:16.930 --> 01:12:28.030 Mark Kushner: Where you get much lower… much lower plasma potentials, much lower sheath drops, and therefore the ions just simply pass by and are not attracted, or do not bombard 450 01:12:28.110 --> 01:12:42.080 Mark Kushner: the channel with the kinetic energy they had in the previous configuration. That, of course, allowed us then to develop a strategy where you can actually build the magnetic field 451 01:12:42.090 --> 01:12:49.750 Mark Kushner: Initially, to behave in this way, in this magnetic shielding way, and therefore have the channel never erode. 452 01:12:50.060 --> 01:12:58.859 Mark Kushner: And that's what we did in an effort back in 2012, where we were funded internally at the laboratory. 453 01:12:59.570 --> 01:13:03.150 Mark Kushner: To prove our findings. 454 01:13:03.350 --> 01:13:13.960 Mark Kushner: So we took a thruster that some of you may be familiar with, the H6 thruster, which was built in collaboration between this university 455 01:13:14.100 --> 01:13:30.840 Mark Kushner: JPL and the Air Force, UH6 thrust faster. We modified it, we did numerical simulations with our whole thruster code, and showed how it is that the magnetic field should be designed in a manner to achieve magnetic shielding of these walls over here. 456 01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:37.040 Mark Kushner: We did that, we modified the thruster, and then we did, 457 01:13:37.380 --> 01:13:54.569 Mark Kushner: Several measurements, including direct erosion measurements, and showed unambiguously that the plasma properties that we expected by putting probes here, the plasma properties were as predicted by the models, much lower plasma potentials and electron temperatures. 458 01:13:55.180 --> 01:13:57.849 Mark Kushner: And also, the erosion rates. 459 01:13:58.020 --> 01:14:14.320 Mark Kushner: that were measured in the original configuration, the one that did not have magnetic shielding were high, whereas when we implemented magnetic shielding, they were essentially within the noise of the instrument, so there was really no erosion. 460 01:14:16.390 --> 01:14:23.369 Mark Kushner: So that was a, as you can imagine, a significant breakthrough that sort of made news, and a lot of, a lot of folks, 461 01:14:24.400 --> 01:14:43.559 Mark Kushner: advertised it worldwide and had important implications, and what's more important to us was that many programs evolved after that, trying to incorporate magnetic shielding in the thrusters, and I'll list some of them, here. 462 01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:52.159 Mark Kushner: Including incorporating magnetic shielding in a wide range of different thrusters and operating conditions and sizes. 463 01:14:52.720 --> 01:15:04.760 Mark Kushner: And, including our latest thruster, the qualifact rocket with Magnetic Shielding, is built right now by Aerojet as the APS system to go on gateway. 464 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:17.180 Mark Kushner: Well, that was the last chart. I wanted to thank you. I know it was a long talk. I appreciate your time. I would open it up for questions, but as you are 465 01:15:18.460 --> 01:15:33.009 Mark Kushner: sort of formulating your questions, I'm going to put some personal photos here from a trip I took back in 2014, in the beautiful city of Budapest, where I was lucky enough to visit. 466 01:15:33.190 --> 01:15:39.699 Mark Kushner: this very famous gymnasium called the Fasori Evangelicos Gymnasium, where… 467 01:15:40.630 --> 01:15:48.359 Mark Kushner: Many of the Martians, these are the Hungarian scientists that contributed to the Manhattan Project, attended. 468 01:15:48.610 --> 01:15:53.770 Mark Kushner: We're talking about folks like Edward Teller, Eugene Wigner, who is… 469 01:15:54.800 --> 01:16:10.410 Mark Kushner: Whose name is here on this plaque, who's also a Nobel laureate, and of course, John van Neumann. Janos Harsani, also a Nobel laureate, but in economics. So you can imagine the waves that are emanating from this high school. 470 01:16:10.490 --> 01:16:15.370 Mark Kushner: That produced so many brilliant scientists. And over here to the left. 471 01:16:16.260 --> 01:16:23.549 Mark Kushner: That's me, under the plaque, on a building that Johnny von Neumann grew up. 472 01:16:23.630 --> 01:16:39.730 Mark Kushner: Until the age of 18, and where he was rumored, to, see his mother one day, who was a heavy smoker, gazing out the window, smoking a cigarette, and he, he asked her 473 01:16:39.870 --> 01:16:42.930 Mark Kushner: Mother, what are you calculating? 474 01:16:43.230 --> 01:16:46.610 Mark Kushner: And that is not the punchline. The punchline is that he was 5 years old. 475 01:16:47.380 --> 01:16:50.820 Mark Kushner: So, I'll open it up for questions. Thank you, everybody, for your time. 476 01:16:55.640 --> 01:16:58.589 Mark Kushner: Thank you very much for that excellent seminar. 477 01:16:58.590 --> 01:17:21.479 Mark Kushner: We unfortunately need to end now, because there's a class that's here at 4.30. So, perhaps we could, reconvene for questions, just in the atrium, and we can, continue at that point. 478 01:17:21.480 --> 01:17:23.259 Mark Kushner: You're living with your 5-year-old?